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Offline wielandgeorg  
#1 Posted : 18 April 2020 22:43:48(UTC)
wielandgeorg


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Hello. I have an issue with my car and I feel that this forum is my only hope right now

I have 2016 Rolls Royce Wraith N74 engine. Similar to F series BMW 760Li

Long story short I received car with wrong DME's installed from 2011 Rolls Royce Ghost.

I found two donor DME from same year 2016 rolls wraith salvage car.

I sent both DMEs, and my original CAS4 & Key to Precision ECU and he simply changed ISN & VIN in both DME's

When I receive back and installed in the car I have permanent fault in DME2 Slave "1B2008 EWS Immobilizer protection against tampering response implausible"

DME1 (Master) has no faults. CAS has no faults. EGS has no faults. And engine starts and car will drive but only is firing on one bank cyl 1-6. cyl 7-12 are NOT running due to EWS immobilizer issue.

I swap slave dme to master and it works fine as master.. only as slave it has immo fault. doesn't matter which dme is on slave. Master side is ok slave side is not ok.

I send both back to precision thinking maybe he made a mistake on the ISN or something. He checked all and everything is matching checksum and all identical in both DME.

I install again in car. I reset all adaptation and learned values but problem still DME2 fault.

I used ISTA software to program and encode CAS and both DME but problem still there.

What can I try to do to solve this issue? Any help will be greatly appreciated and I will pay for a working solution.

Thank you and best regards my friends.

Edited by user 28 April 2020 20:15:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Autohex_II_BMW  
#2 Posted : 19 April 2020 00:42:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wielandgeorg Go to Quoted Post
Hello. I have an issue with my car and I feel that this forum is my only hope right now

I have 2016 Rolls Royce Wraith N74 engine. Similar to F series BMW 760Li

Long story short I received car with wrong DME's installed from 2011 Rolls Royce Ghost.

I found two donor DME from same year 2016 rolls wraith salvage car.

I sent both DMEs, and my original CAS4 & Key to Precision ECU and he simply changed ISN & VIN in both DME's

When I receive back and installed in the car I have permanent fault in DME2 Slave "1B2008 EWS Immobilizer protection against tampering response implausible"

DME1 (Master) has no faults. CAS has no faults. EGS has no faults. And engine starts and car will drive but only is firing on one bank cyl 1-6. cyl 7-12 are NOT running due to EWS immobilizer issue.

I swap DME from one side to other but same problem persists. Only in DME2 same fault.
I send both back to precision thinking maybe he made a mistake on the ISN or something. He checked all and everything is matching checksum and all identical in both DME.

I install again in car. I reset all adaptation and learned values but problem still DME2 fault.

I used ISTA software to program and encode CAS and both DME but problem still there.

What can I try to do to solve this issue? Any help will be greatly appreciated and I will pay for a working solution.

Thank you and best regards my friends.


maybe its from the FSC code in DME can you send the photo for fault from ISTA.
Offline wielandgeorg  
#3 Posted : 19 April 2020 08:29:12(UTC)
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Thank you for the reply.

I apologize for posting in 2 categories as I wasn't sure which one applies to my issue.

Attached is the ISTA+ fault code.

I also have E-SYS but I am not completely confident on how to use it.

From my understanding I believe the problem may be that both DME are somehow configured as Master thats why when I swap them the DME with the fault now doesn't have fault and the one that was moved from right to left now gets the fault. Unfortunately when I received them from the donor car they were not marked M or S so they may have been installed backwards and now learned to be both master? Is that something FSC code can correct?

Cheers

IMG_5763.jpg (1,595kb) downloaded 27 time(s). IMG_5764.jpg (1,550kb) downloaded 17 time(s).

Edited by user 19 April 2020 08:38:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

User is suspended until 04/06/2020 16:39:38(UTC) Andrzej  
#4 Posted : 19 April 2020 10:17:01(UTC)
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changing vin and ISN alone will not do anything, you need to get the FSC repair code for DDE / DME, upload it, activate it,
you need to have the fsc repair code, ask on portals with fsc codes, or directly at a BMW dealer, uploading the code is another matter, ah4 will not do it,
this forum is not the right place to give such advice, this is the autohex forum, a lot of work ahead of them, because key programming or ISN reading, coding, programming is only 50 percent of success, enter a higher level

Edited by user 19 April 2020 10:24:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline wielandgeorg  
#5 Posted : 19 April 2020 13:22:41(UTC)
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I had shawnsheridan over at bimmerfest forum check my FSC status in E-SYS and he said DME in this vehicle does NOT require FSC code.
User is suspended until 04/06/2020 16:39:38(UTC) Andrzej  
#6 Posted : 19 April 2020 13:54:22(UTC)
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strange, two drivers should require fsc, but if he said no, that's how it is,
I am worried about low oil level, is it really low if you do not have damaged cables between the controller and the engine (linbus) or
controller frequent cause of damage msd 85, 87
it's hard to advise something without being connected to the car
Offline wielandgeorg  
#7 Posted : 19 April 2020 14:25:59(UTC)
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forgive me but what would low oil level have effect on this? yes oil level is low maybe 1 quart.. not bad. Ohh do you mean oil inside the DME thru the wire? No all wire are dry and okay..

Also I have teamviewer and I have ISTA+ and E-SYS so connection is not a problem..

User is suspended until 04/06/2020 16:39:38(UTC) Andrzej  
#8 Posted : 20 April 2020 01:01:10(UTC)
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you misunderstood me, if the oil level is ok and the computer tells you that it is small, it means the linbus or dde.dme line is broken
I had it in X6m. There are also two dme
fix other faults and then start to fix the problem with dme,
if you are replacing a dme and you still have the same symptom, it may mean that your engine installation is damaged. it's just my guess, it doesn't have to be this way but it's highly likely.
ista d tells you what to do, what to check, do it
Regards
Offline abc123  
#9 Posted : 26 April 2020 16:47:55(UTC)
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Swap the DMEs and see if the Slave will run in Master place and vice versa. I'm not sure about FSC but with FSC mismatch you would have different code. Also car would start and run on all cylinders but no RPM, no power.
Offline wielandgeorg  
#10 Posted : 26 April 2020 22:09:13(UTC)
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Dear ABC123

Can you help me figure this out ?

I did swap slave dme to master and it works fine as master with no errors. Only whichever dme is in slave place gets immo fault.

Also this car has no FSC for dme so we can ignore that.

Please let me know what you think.

I have checked all communication wiring to cas and to other dme and all. Everything is okay there.
Offline abc123  
#11 Posted : 27 April 2020 08:36:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wielandgeorg Go to Quoted Post
Dear ABC123

Can you help me figure this out ?

I did swap slave dme to master and it works fine as master with no errors. Only whichever dme is in slave place gets immo fault.

Also this car has no FSC for dme so we can ignore that.

Please let me know what you think.

I have checked all communication wiring to cas and to other dme and all. Everything is okay there.


PM me the last 7 of the VIN

Offline Levanime  
#12 Posted : 27 April 2020 16:39:07(UTC)
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let me connect to it,
ill try to check whats going on
Offline gyr  
#13 Posted : 28 April 2020 19:49:08(UTC)
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i ve the solution as i faced it on f10 m5 last month.i can help just pm
Offline Noy  
#14 Posted : 28 April 2020 22:34:06(UTC)
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why not share solution with us too?
or otherwise can you share the solution with me too in PM?
Offline abc123  
#15 Posted : 29 April 2020 19:00:32(UTC)
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So, I don't have solution but looking on the diagram, immobilizer interface is shown on one wire CAS_BUS. I'm not sure if this is the only way. I know CAN bus has to be used for this as well. You probably will need to do some testing on that wire. I'm looking at this diagram: https://www.newtis.info/...nic-immobiliser/Bt5uq5VV

So, if both DMEs work in the master position and the CAS_BUS is the only interface used for immobilizer then signal on master and slave has to be different. It goes to the same connector, same pin. You can compare voltage / signal (depending on tools you have) on both connectors on startup. You can also jump (connect) this circuit with extra wire to bypass any issue. Since you know that the master side is OK.

You can also cut the CAS_BUS wire to master to see if you have the same issue present and find out if the immo data is also getting sent via K_CAN2.
Offline gyr  
#16 Posted : 30 April 2020 07:46:34(UTC)
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its called DME1 and DME2 in E66 760i and E38 750i but master and slave in earlier models.you cant running the engine without master but you can without slave,in other side,DME1 and DME2 you can running engine by just one of them.they dont lie when called it master,ecus as cas,egs dsc ...etc the master DME is the talker.what i want to say that the releasing of ignition and injection at slave DME is validated by master in somehow way.
thanks 1 user thanked gyr for this useful post.
Noy
Offline abc123  
#17 Posted : 30 April 2020 08:34:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gyr Go to Quoted Post
its called DME1 and DME2 in E66 760i and E38 750i but master and slave in earlier models.you cant running the engine without master but you can without slave,in other side,DME1 and DME2 you can running engine by just one of them.they dont lie when called it master,ecus as cas,egs dsc ...etc the master DME is the talker.what i want to say that the releasing of ignition and injection at slave DME is validated by master in somehow way.


So, what you are saying it is a software issue not a wiring issue? I looked at the diagram and the salve has a shunt on pins 11 and 39 on X20003 and the master does not. I think this is how the master / slave knows it.

Software issue is of course possible but in that case what would be different in master and slave? You think ISN in CAS and master is the same but then master has another ISN for the slave?
Offline wielandgeorg  
#18 Posted : 30 April 2020 08:48:08(UTC)
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I feel like we have a solution on the horizon.

I think gyr is absolutely correct. The ISN is repeated more than once and structured differently in the dme2 than the master dme1

I had the guy who changed my ISN look at the files again and compared them to a bmw 760li and he found that the slave has isn in a little different location.

This is probably the reason and both of my dme are isn written as master structure.

I am sending them back to him and he will change it and i will keep everyone updated when I receive them. Thank you gyr! Your analogy made sense and I think uncovered the problem.
thanks 1 user thanked wielandgeorg for this useful post.
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Offline abc123  
#19 Posted : 30 April 2020 10:10:05(UTC)
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Yes, keep us posted please.
Offline gyr  
#20 Posted : 30 April 2020 11:06:38(UTC)
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i didnt say the master has a different isn,but different algorithm as somebody can do specific thing with different methods that is the simple definition of algorithm.the master contains the algorithm to authorize the slave.master should be written correctly for the same isn but pertained to slave
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